Apparently, there is a growing anti-feminist movement
If someone had told me that there was a corner of the Internet like this, displaying this kind of explicit misogyny, I would never have believed it.
Here was my response to the latest post, and I don’t plan on returning:
wow. I’ve never been here before. I can’t believe there is a niche for this kind of shit. I do understand that sites like this rely on the fact that it will piss people off in order to be successful, so I’ll say one thing and I’ll probably never visit again. I guess it is important to mention that I am a man.
Men rape women. Men are violent and abusive to women and other men. Not all men are this way. We live in a culture where more than 1 in four women will be raped in her lifetime. Another 19 percent will fend off rape attempts. These are conservative estimations. Any example of violence against men by women is merely an exception to the rule. These are our sisters, our mothers, our cousins, our best friends…. This is reality. This is why buses like this exist. Is this right? No.
If you’d like to end practices like this, why don’t you concentrate your efforts on ending rape and sexism. This is a men’s problem, not a women’s problem. Do you really think rampant misogyny will help?
The truth is, being a male in a patriarchal society affords us the luxury of never having to consider what it is like to walk down the street in fear. Here is a simple question that will help you understand: What do you do on a daily basis to prevent yourself from being raped? Write down your answer if you have one. Ask a woman that same question and make sure you have enough paper for her answers.
Please wake up.
Explore posts in the same categories: feminist
February 27th, 2007 at 11:03 am
niche for this kind of shit - Personal disgust with subject (doesn’t add anything to the argument).
rely on the fact that it will piss people off in order to be successful - “Fact” founded off of personal opinion. Adds nothing to the argument.
I am a man I am a woman. So?
Men rape women / Not all men are this way Opting for shooting yourself in the foot?
1 in four women will be raped in her lifetime False. Even in college, the highest risk of rape, the stats are only 30/1000, or 3%.
Any example of violence against men by women is merely an exception to the rule. Absolutely reeks of bias. No stats, no nothing, more personal opinion (18% of woman are abused in a relationship by a man, 17% of men are abused by a woman in a relationship).
Is this right? No Then why are you encouraging it?
What do you do on a daily basis to prevent yourself from being raped Daily basis? Excuse me? Last time I checked random men without pants on didn’t come jumping out of bushes. In fact, that’s never happened to me. Yes I’ve been raped, but I can walk home at 2am on a party night and not worry at all. I don’t know what you’re smoking.
Please wake up. Yes, please do.
February 27th, 2007 at 11:57 am
I am very sorry you have been deluded into believing these stats. They are simply false. I just googled “rape facts,” and every single site that came up supported what I said. These include blogs, organizations, and schools. I’m getting a M.A. certificate in women’s studies and I’ve seen hundreds of different statistics. Some of them vary, but nothing comes close to your claims.
Further, none of your argumentative logic makes any sense. Besides, as long as violence against women remains an “argument,” the violence will continue.
When I asked what people do on a daily basis to prevent from being raped, I never mentioned anything about the “stranger in the bushes.” 80% of rapes are acquaintance rapes.
I suppose the Holocaust was bullshit and the world is flat, right? I’m not going to waste any more of my time arguing over such fundamental concepts. There are some people that simply won’t get it and I accept that. By coming here and voicing such ill-founded realities, you are only embarrassing yourself.
February 27th, 2007 at 12:06 pm
Kyle- Sorry that stats from the Department of Justice don’t stand up to stuff like your womyn’s studies. I had thought that the government was a good source of information, but apparently it’s all lies. /sarcasm. Also, do you know where the 1/4 stat comes from? It’s actually from an old 80’s feminist survey where it said that “if you had sex with your husband while drunk” it was rape. By those types of standards, it should be 100% that have been raped.
I’m very sorry that you never learnt what a hasty generalization was. I had thought you would’ve needed to take a rhetorics course along side of your fem studies.
Most of those acquaintance rapes are done while drunk. Oops, sorry, I guess stats from a national center for health aren’t reliable. Sorry.
I suppose the Holocaust was bullshit and the world is flat, right. So now you’re degrading even further to try to make a point? Please, reread your posts before you click submit, it’s embarrassing to read them.
ill-founded realities, you are only embarrassing yourself. Sorry if you feel the need to verbally attack me and my beliefs because I do not agree with you.
If anything, I’d advice you to start joining some MRA blogs and forums and start seeing their side of the opinion, if nothing more than to see where their opinions come from.
But considering you’re taking fem studies, I’d really doubt you had any interest in what men and women around you are talking about.
February 27th, 2007 at 12:17 pm
Stats on rape from the department of justice don’t stand up. They’re based on rapes that are reported (rape is notoriously under-reported) and convictions (which takes the number down even further).
Rhetoric courses? That’s what I’m in school for. I’m merely getting a women’s studies certificate on top of that. I also write a monthly column that requires me to know what “men and women around [me] are talking about.”
The only reason I stated that bit about the Holocaust and the world being flat is to point out the absurdity of logically confronting illogical claims. I feel like I’m debating the existence of birds or something.
This is my last post to you.
February 27th, 2007 at 2:24 pm
You’ve done it now. Taking issue with Fred is normally a surefire way to get a whole bunch of MRAs stopping by and leaving comments, something like this one!
“Men rape women. Men are violent and abusive to women and other men. Not all men are this way.”
Well then why is the assumption that all men are violent rapists enshrined in law exactly? Furthermore, why is it believed necessary to strip a man’s right to a fair trial by assuming his guilt in order to secure a conviction? Why is it appropriate for the alleged Duke rapists to be threatened with violence, and told to “tell the truth” when the evidence clearly shows that no crime took place? Do these young men not deserve to be presumed innocent until proven guilty, something which society has clearly forgotten?
February 27th, 2007 at 2:35 pm
Nice to meet you too Kyle
Ever feel like you’re bangin gyour head against a brick wall?
February 27th, 2007 at 3:33 pm
Alright Kyle, if you don’t want to respond to me anymore that’s fine. I don’t see anywhere where you’re willing to see things from the other side or the people around you. It sounds more like you’re trying to be cultured and failing pretty hard.
Laura- Who doesn’t?
February 28th, 2007 at 9:24 am
One hopes you will be equally disgusted with feminists who promote misandry and who are pro-male rape and will leave an equally angry, critical response on their sites.
February 28th, 2007 at 12:33 pm
Soldier, you have completely and grossly misrepresented what “I blame the patriarchy” is talking about on her site. Besides, even if you were right, claiming your hatred is justified because “other people are doing it to” is really stupid. Plus, I never pretended to speak for all “feminists.” There are a LOT of different feminists out there. I know it is easier for you to put all feminists into a neat little stereotype, but that is not reflective of reality.
Everybody else: You’re assumptions and name-calling are proof to me that you all have a very limited understanding of what feminism is. Today feminism spans much further and wider than gender equality. We’re talking about power relations in our culture, in the world. We’re talking about race, class, as well as gender. We’re talking about globalization, the exploitation of third world workers, the environment….the list is simply huge and each factor is interrelated. Each part affects the way both men and women meaningfully interact in the world.
In the same way that workers don’t strike without reason, women who want safe male-free transportation are also doing this for a reason. It’s in a response to male violence or the fear of male violence. These claims don’t come out of nowhere. Instead of attacking the obvious, why don’t you look at the reasons why these women are scared enough to request services like this? My opinions aside, you’re constant and inappropriate knee-jerk reactions aren’t furthering you’re your cause. Rather, it reinforces false us v. them dichotomies which only makes things harder for you. If feminists are you’re enemy, all the more reason to work with them, not against them. If your goal is to eradicate feminism, whatever that means, it’s simply not going to happen.
Arguing with any of you is worthless. When I make a claim most people understand to be true, it’s unsubstantiated without stats. If I list stats, my sources are bullshit. What do you want me to say here? Men are not violent to women? It’s all made up crap by evil feminists who want to subjugate men? Men have and continue to have the vast majority of power in our culture. That is simply a fact. Now that this power is threatened, some men will do what ever they can to resubstantiate this power, control, dominance by degrading everyone around them. It’s basic psychology really. I could write a paper explaining the theory, The Crisis of Masculinity, with the comments from this post alone.
I expect I’ll be attacked again. I can’t wait. I’m deeply involved in a group called the MARS Project (men against rape and sexism). Your comments only prove to me that there is still a lot of work that needs to be done.
February 28th, 2007 at 2:00 pm
Quoting Kyle:
“The truth is, being a male in a patriarchal society affords us the luxury of never having to consider what it is like to walk down the street in fear.”
Does the above quote mean that if we live in a matriarchal society then we would have reason to walk down the street in fear?
If not, are you assuming that a matriarchy is going to be the saviour of all people of all bad things? Or all bad things that only women experience?
I don’t blame the patriarchy for the bad things that happen to women, I blame the bad people that do bad things to women. And get this: they’re not always men!!! Get that into your thick skull.
You’re using the patriarchy in this as a sacrificial lamb. It gets obvious and it gets boring.
February 28th, 2007 at 3:52 pm
For a Master’s student, you aren’t very good at thinking for yourself, or at close-reading.
Saying that some men are violent towards women is true. But what you seem to deliberately, and repeatedly fail to understand is that the statistics overwhelmingly show that it is only a relatively small portion of men who are violent.
The safety issue therefore isn’t being promoted by rational discussion, it is feminist man-haters who are instilling irrational fear in women. They are doing more violence to women by trying to make them afraid, and keeping them afraid than men ever did.
There IS a minor basis for this fear in reality, I don’t believe we’re denying that men rape women. I think you want to believe that we are. What we’re telling you is that the statistics you have are deliberately distorted, and embellished to provoke an emotional reaction from soft-headed fools like you.
I don’t expect you to understand that. You’ve been indoctrinated to such a degree that you either can’t, or won’t think for yourself anymore. I’m sorry, I can’t put the truth any more plainly than I have.
It’s not us who aren’t worth it, it’s you.
February 28th, 2007 at 4:34 pm
keep ‘em coming. You are all unbelievable.
I’m not going to argue or defend statistics. They’re lousy, no matter where they come from.
I have a question: What do you think the ultimate goal of feminism is? What do you think we’re trying to accomplish?
Do you really think we’re working towards a world “dominated by women?”
February 28th, 2007 at 6:34 pm
“The proportion of men must be reduced to and maintained at approximately 10% of the human race.” — Sally Miller Gearhart, in The Future - If There Is One - Is Female.
“If life is to survive on this planet, there must be a decontamination of the Earth. I think this will be accompanied by an evolutionary process that will result in a drastic reduction of the population of males.” –Mary Daly, former Professor at Boston College, 2001.
“Men are animals. Don’t you think so?” — Ireen von Wachenfeldt, radical feminist leader in Sweden
“I feel that ‘man-hating’ is an honorable and viable political act, that the oppressed have a right to class-hatred against the class that is oppressing them.” — Robin Morgan, Ms. Magazine Editor.
“To call a man an animal is to flatter him; he’s a machine, a walking dildo.” — Valerie Solanas, Authoress of the SCUM Manifesto
Yes. As a matter of fact, we do. I wonder how we got that impression.
February 28th, 2007 at 9:26 pm
I looks like you are fighting man-hating feminism with women-hating misogany. Isn’t that like trying to stop violence with guns?
Both of these worlds are crazy and I’m glad I chose to live with either ridiculous viewpoint. I am a woman that loves and respects men enough to know that most of them are not rapists. And nothing is sexier than a man that is strong enough to stand up and defend women. But if you are going to bash women, you could at least have the stones to use a real name. Pansies
March 1st, 2007 at 8:41 am
I looks like you are fighting man-hating feminism with women-hating misogany. Isn’t that like trying to stop violence with guns?
well said.
As I stated before, there are a lot of different feminists out there. I don’t support any of the above quotes. That doesn’t mean I don’t understand the social framework that prompts them to say these things.
At the same time, however, many of these quotes are taken out of context. Particularly the one from Robin Morgan. Often when feminists bash “men,” they’re not implicating individual people, but rather the dominant masculine power structures that guide our culture.
If this is what you think feminist theory is arguing for, this is further proof that you have a limited understanding of what feminism is.
March 1st, 2007 at 8:43 am
Oh and I have news for you. Men are animals. Women are too. People tend to forget that sometimes.
March 1st, 2007 at 9:13 am
I know it is easier for you to put all feminists into a neat little stereotype, but that is not reflective of reality.
I did not state all feminist. It is unfortunate that you support feminists who are pro-male rape. Speaking as a male victim and an advocate for male victims, I hoped you would consider those comments disgusting. Apparently condoning the rape boys and men and supporting female sex offenders is irrelevant to you. That is fine. Your are entitled to your opinion.
March 1st, 2007 at 10:14 am
Wow… just wow… this seems to be a battle of who is more irrational, who is more extreme. It would be great to hear some concensus. Kyle does not support male rape or a matriarchal society. He is not advocating a polar shift in power or hierarchy. He is advocating equality. Wouldn’t it be great to hear those who support a patriarchal power structure focus their energy promoting the protection of the rights of minorities and those who culture/society subjugates instead defending to the death the failures, and perhaps, unintented oppression that exists (even if it is so slight that oppressors can easily dismiss it - or so obvious that they must)? Isn’t this a universal complaint of governments? Don’t we all want our political parties to be more concerned with affecting positive change than covering up failures? Isn’t it the responsibility of men to promote the rights and safety of women if they are going to assume their position in the hierarchy? Don’t you wonder what spawned the feminist movement? I believe we have forgotten or neglected our responsibilities. I don’t think women are any less important or worthy of full economic, political and domestic freedom and I think any rational person would. But, I also believe that men and women are naturally going to fulfill certain roles in relationships and in society - not without exception.
Kyle’s group, MARS (men against rape and sexism), is an attempt to remedy this very problem. He is, as a male, admitting that the violence is grossly aimed in one direction and it is very present. Who cares what the numbers are… we know it exists. If it is going to stop, men have to understand their role and make a committment to end it instead of viewing it as a personal attack.
A lot of people, men and women, will be molested by peers, relatives, strangers… A lot of people will be abused, a lot will be battered. If you take issue with molestation, battery or abuse to one demographic, you have reason to take issue with violence towards every demographic. The answer is to promote the equality and rights for all. There will be radicals on every side, but just as we roll our eyes and toss out the opinions of the radicals in our own movements, we should toss out the opinions of the radicals in those we disagree with.
No one here is supporting the violence or sugjugation of another - are we?
March 1st, 2007 at 11:22 am
Andy. Thank you. I knew you couldn’t stay silent for too long.
Toy Soldier, I’m getting very bored with this argument and having to repeat myself.
I do not condone male rape. I never said I do. Again, you have misrepresented me and the blog you’re talking about. Read what they’re saying and stop interpreting these statements in a manner that justifies your own agenda.
Anyone who does condone male rape or a matriarchal society has nothing to do with me and they have nothing to do feminism. Period.
March 1st, 2007 at 12:01 pm
Kyle, you are supporting comments and attitudes that condone and minimize the effects and reality of male rape. Another feminist found their comments to endorse male rape. Again, it is shameful that you would back that kind of attitude, but you are entitled to your opinion, which apparently coincides with the afore mentioned site’s views.
March 1st, 2007 at 1:19 pm
Toy Soldier, he just said he didn’t. I imagine your next response might be “yeah huh” followed by a tongue sticking out.
March 1st, 2007 at 1:19 pm
Toy Soldier, he just said he didn’t. I imagine your next response might be “yeah huh” followed by a tongue sticking out.
This is conversation is absolutely hopeless.
March 1st, 2007 at 3:29 pm
[…] In other, unrelated news, I’ve recently become a spectacle in the world of Men’s Rights Activists. I’ve learned a lot from the exchange on my site and else where. I’d like to write about this soon. If anything, I learned that I’m a “mangina,” which is a new word for my ever-enlightened lexicon. […]
March 1st, 2007 at 7:47 pm
You see, when criticism of male and female promoters of “feminism” somehow becomes oughtright misogany, THAT”S modern feminist arguement.
As has been pointed out, there are all SORTS of folk that proclaim their agenda
to fall under the umbrella of “feminism”.
Please go through the list (wikipedia will do)and define which ones are REAL feminism, good feminism, bad feminism, and which are just plain loony tunes that
are hiding behind socialist PC skirts when they KNOW they’ve done something wrong.
Tell us which ones you endorse and which ones you decry. Let’s start with the legitimacy of agendas that the UN, COW, and NOW promote under the banner of womans “rights”, yet rarely survive scrutiny of the harsh light of a retrospective microscope.
I’d be interested to know which educational establishment, as well as which specific professors, see fit to
consider bestowing advanced degrees unto candidates seemingly only vaguely aware of “mangina”,anti-feminism NOT demonstrating oughtright “misandry”, and that directly self-contradicting statements do NOT make for valid retoric.
I hope, for your sake, it’s NOT the recently exposed substandard U of Arizona mill. If so, you may be entitled to a refund of tuition.
Side note: Grey type on black background may seem cool to you. It’s hard on the eyes. It does NOT invite close consideration of content and reveals an ultimate urge to conceal, ask any 2nd year psych wonk from any school OTHER THAN the one you currently employ. An on-line course or two in sociology, psychology, and art may prove fruitful. Just sayin’…
March 1st, 2007 at 9:42 pm
Have you really moved on to attacking the html decisions I’ve made for this blog? If we’re getting that cheap, you write like a third grader. I had to read your post three times just to understand what you’re trying to say. I think there was a question in there….
If you’re trying to ask me which feminists have helped shape my understanding of feminism and what needs to be donel, here are a few: Derrick Jensen, Patricia Hill Collins, Michael Kimmel, Jackson Katz, Angela Davis, Chandra Talpade Mohanty, Vandana Shiva, Judith Butler, Judith Halberstam, bell hooks, Nancy Hartsock, Adrienne Rich and many others.
Feminist’s, by the way, are CONSTANTLY critiquing each other. It’s done respecfully, so you probably haven’t noticed.
March 2nd, 2007 at 8:35 am
“Feminist’s, by the way, are CONSTANTLY critiquing each other.”
Yes,I’ve seen how it’s done at Feministing, Pandagon, Alas,a blog, ivillage, Dr. Schwizers, Ginmars’, Txfeminist, XY, the (now defunct)iFeminist, The Countess, (need more, or are these the “wrong” kind?)
Judging by these, and others commonly interlinked (see “Koufax Award”), apparently we have different cultural background concerning the elements of respectful discourse.
In fairness, I RARELY consider feminist sites by folks still in school to be valid. After all, the “education” period is FAR from over, isn’t it?
That’s an impressive list of mentors you’ve listed. I don’t recognize ONE of them. I was refering NOT to individuals, but the ideologicaly identified agendas that have co-opted feminisms roots as a whole. Unfortunately the list once covered at Wikipedia(Who I no longer endorse as reliable referance) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feminist
seems to have been eliminated in favor of
tiresom drivel.
March 2nd, 2007 at 8:51 am
holy moly! I was told that this was interesting~ I am blown away!
the fight against violence and rape is a noble pass time! That is the bottom line. It does not matter if the victim is male or female or intersexed~ or if the victim is a child or an elder… RAPE SHOULD NOT HAPPEN. People should not force other people to engage in sexual acts without consent. Bottom line! It does not matter which stat is used~ they all measure slightly different things, a stat is only good if the methods and the questions and the sample is included~
the 1 in 4 is based from phone surveys
the 3% is based on reports
Everyone is right! Just on different things.
The biggest shame about feminism is that it is all considered to be the same thing. *It is not! For many years I refused the word feminist, discredited them~ could not identify. Then~ I learned. I had to stop talking out of my ass because I realized that the “man hating” feminists where marginal~ meaning there are not that many of them! I realized that feminist quotes are used OUT OF CONTEXT, I realized that I belive much of what feminists say.
It is ironic, as somebody who understands the various branches of feminism and what each branch has to say… to read people bashing feminists with feminist tools, strategies and rhetoric.
Most of the people on this blog used arguments against feminsits that are feminist in nature. we are witnessing an internal conflict!! I think its funny.
We are all on the same side. I dare to say that a majority of men and women do not think it is ok to stick anything into anybodies body without permission or consent?????? Is that a crazy radical man hating statement?
Kyle~ the more I get to know you, the more I admire you! You rock!
July 3rd, 2008 at 3:53 am
You are not a man.You are a brainwashed eunuch.I cant wait to hear your rationalisation for being assfucked in court when your wife finally gets bored with you and divorces you.